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Over the past couple of years I have posted about how we’re bending over backwards to accommodate Islam here in the states, and how it’s becoming misused and abused. The question is; just how far will we go? And where do we draw the line when it starts to infringe on the rights and customs of those of us who have had, and known these rights and customs for so very long now?

We have Islam forcing the Kansas City airport to take down their Christmas decorations because it was offensive, oh, and non-inclusive. But the problem with that garbage is that Islam doesn’t celebrate Christmas…so how would they be included? And they also demanded that the Menorah be removed. The airport board later put some balls on and put the decorations back up. In a number of college campuses around the country Muslims have lobbied for, and even protested to have their own wash basin’s and foot bath basin’s installed to accommodate their religion. In many cases these items were finally installed, at the expense of the schools.

Nationally and locally there are so many cases of Islam bullying it’s way into our society using the Constitution as one of it’s vehicles, also protesting, and without any sense of tolerance…it seems in a number of cases that the intolerance of other religions and customs is sort of the ”silent grounds” to be ridden of offensive things. And since Muhammad basically preaches intolerance of other religions and customs, it would make sense to use whatever means necessary to eliminate what we’ve known forever. It is the general nature of Islam, not just radical Islam to be intolerant of change…to not cooperate but to be obeyed. The latest case comes from Harvard of all places…talk about a place of tolerance but non-transparency.

Muslim women at Harvard are lobbying to have their own gym time, with no men around. In other words a gym that has been co-ed forever and where the right to be there is factored into the tuition would be changed permanently. And if you look at the schedules of college kids today, with getting to class, study time and other school related activities, there’s only so much time to get to the gym, to get in your workout. So they want to be able to use the gym by themselves with no men around. They’ve stated the times that they’d like to have…but again; how are the men supposed work around this especially when their schedules have pretty much been set in stone? The women’s arguments were rather weak though. They felt that they could relax more, or be more at ease, especially while wearing their head wraps…pretty lame, but this is what they’re saying. I should add that any of the other non-Muslim women interviewed balked at the idea saying that, in essence, ”they’re making demands that are just not realistic, and what’s next, demanding that Christian women as well be off-limits when they’re there?”

Now anytime I’ve written about Islam in any kind of negative way, I get labeled as the one who is intolerant…but I’m not. I spent a number of my growing up years in the most populated Muslim country in the world; so I suspect I know a little about how peaceful many Muslims are, and how loving as well. But I’m talking about a good portion of the Islam that has come to America, the Islam that would prefer doing away with celebrating Christian and Jewish traditions, and the Islam that apparently doesn’t recognize our Constitution when it comes to the right to practice your religion without fear, and to celebrate accordingly. But that ‘ole Constitution can sure be turned around on us when need be.

So the question remains…just how far will we bend over to accommodate Islam in America? Where do we draw the line when Islam begins to infringe on the ”people”? If we somehow have a Barack Hussein Obama in the White House how might this change the position of Islam in America? I’m not saying that he would endeavor to get the Koran into schools, or use it to swear on, or have it supersede the Bible where the Bible has stood here for several hundreds of years. But would the Islam world here, put undo pressure on the White House to make changes to accommodate the Islamic community, that would eventually begin to do away with the customs and traditions we’ve known forever; because they’re either offensive or non-inclusive? Settle down Obama groupies…I’m not implying that his first 100 days would be about changes like this…I would say the same about Hillary Rodham Clinton. In fact, I would go so far as to say that Clinton would be the first to succumb to pressure of that nature. Keep in mind also that the danger of an Obama or Hillary presidency is their tolerance towards globalization, a very lukewarm respect for our founding ideals and principles, and especially in Obama’s case his notions of being able to sit down and have any kind of meaningful dialogue with our adversaries.

I’m all for “live and let live”, and I’m all for equality amongst American’s…I am. But this problem has been seeping farther and deeper into this country since the start of the war in Iraq. Some in the Islamic community have seen this as a way to further a cause that in the end will have us sitting in the back seats. Because of the prevalence of extremists like Osama bin-Laden, and President Mahmoud Ahmandinejad of Iran, the continued unrest in Palestine and the incessant chanting of “death to America” in many Muslim countries, it injects uncertainty and fear into us, and the next thing you know we’re racing to see what’s politically incorrect and offensive and what can we do to make it all better! Europe right now is a prime example. France for instance is in it deep because of opening their doors and arms to any Muslim wanting in, and then when they cannot provide the jobs they want; what do they do? They burn anything and everything in sight…without regard to their neighbor who is non-Muslim and in the same boat. France right now is doing anything they can to accommodate; but at what cost?

I’m a big fan of England and the Brits…but for years now they’ve allowed extremist Mosques to be built that house and promote terrorism. They’ve quietly turned the other way while animosity and a hatred for the west has grown right under their noses…and then wonder why their subways and buses etc are getting blown to bits. In their defense though, Scotland Yard does brilliant work in tracking down these terrorists and bringing them to justice. But wouldn’t have a wearier eye in the beginning helped now, in today’s climate of hating the west? America is still very lame when it comes to who gets in and who doesn’t. And take a look at the latest numbers put out by the DHS, (Department of Homeland Security). Even since 9/11 there has been virtually no change in how flight schools do background checks on prospective students. Most of the schools audited were found to be in violation of the rules set forth by the DHS and the FAA, (Federal Aviation Administration). Worse still…the majority of the students in question were from somewhere in the Middle East. Here comes complacency again…and of course for the schools the almighty dollar.

I’m advocating a tougher stance on what we do to accommodate just one religion, and one group of people. I’m advocating that we not succumb to pressures put on us by a select group that thinks that we’re non-inclusive and intolerant; we’re not and we have proven this since the beginning of this country. I’m advocating more awareness of this growing problem, and a willingness of those so torn up over what’s correct and what’s incorrect to make a more concerted effort to understand where the limits of tolerance lay. We are indeed a nation of immigrants and will continue to be a nation of immigrants…it is after all what this country is about. But we cannot allow ourselves to become so tolerant of, and subject to, just one group and one religion that we find ourselves a society that obeys in the name of tolerance and “diversity”. Invariably most all in our intelligence communities agree that another attack on this country is imminent…and misguided tolerance and liberalism in this country will do nothing but help to foster any attack.

This one of Bush I tossed in purely for humors sake.

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At 09:29, March 11, 2008, DeeJay said:
	Hmmmm I have to think about this one for a bit. I think we are walking a fine line in an attempt to be tolerant of people of all faiths. Add Comment \| Link \| \|

At 01:04, March 12, 2008, texican said:
	I've had this type of discussion (not always the same subject, necessarily) many times in some of my classes. While one may disagree with another's point of view...both sides have the right to not be forced into tolerance by the other. Add Comment \| Link \| \|

At 05:12, March 12, 2008, Eclectablog said:

If you're going to get your panties in a bunch about this stuff, at least get your facts straight. The Christmas decorations issue happened at SeaTac in Seattle and the decorations were taken down because a RABBI complained. They were later put back when it was clear he wasn't going to sue them and a menorah was added to the display.

The situation at KC airport was that they added a foot washing basin for the growing number of Muslim cabbies. I think most people found the basins to be preferable over them washing their feet in the sinks but, hey, if it bugs you that much, maybe we should let 'em go back to that, eh?

You are correct that some colleges have been installing the basins as well, using student funds. I can buy the argument that public monies shouldn't be spent on religious installations. Then again, having these guys washing their feet in the sinks...

It'll be interesting to see what happens at Harvard. Keep in mind that they aren't keeping out non-Muslim women, too, just men and just for 6 hours per week at ONE gym. I suspect you'll find that there were plenty of women who started going during that time, including non-Muslim women, because they are more comfortable with that arrangement.

At the end of the day, what you are describing is a clear case of the Tyranny of the Majority. You would like to use your position as a member of the majority to restrict accommodations of those in the minority.

I can say that, in my life, I can't think of any place where accommodating Muslims or Jews or any other religion has inconvenienced me in any way. Must be real bad around where you live, huh?

If we somehow have a Barack Hussein Obama in the White House how might this change the position of Islam in America?

Well, clearly, since he's a stealth Muslim extremist, he will immediately begin requiring all women in America to quit their jobs and start wearing burqahs. Oh, and, dude, you're gonna have to start washing your feet more often, too. I sure hope you like praying several times a day...

(Oh, and all those terrorist attacks in England? Those are pretty much all done by Catholics from Ireland. I'm just sayin'...)

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At 09:40, March 12, 2008, Rubicon said:

"Well, clearly, since he's a stealth Muslim extremist,"

Clearly I did not insinuate that Obama is a stealth Muslim....and I was careful not to imply that he would succumb to any pressures that might come his way from Islamic sects here. And if you read carefully you'll note that I pointed more toward Hillary then I did Obama.

I didn't mention Sea-Tac because of it's redundancy, but if you recall at Sea-Tac, folks interviewed said that most times they were there the Menorah had been found knocked over. By whom specifically I don't think anyone knows...nevertheless my point was being made.

"Keep in mind that they aren't keeping out non-Muslim women,"

"E"...buddy, dudeman, weren't you reading? Or was I not clear in what I said? This was a quote from one of the young Harvard girls being interviewed by a TV reporter. I didn't say that Christian women were being asked to stay away. And I believe that it's 9 hours a week. But the point once again is that this type of thing is happening more and more...we give an inch and they want a mile. And once more of these precedents get set, the more will be demanded .

"I can say that, in my life, I can't think of any place where accommodating Muslims or Jews or any other religion has inconvenienced me in any way."

No...and the odds of that happening right away for you or me personally are slim at this point. I'm speaking of the future, because it is happening now in various parts of the country. America has never had a problem accommodating Jews, or Hindus, or Buddhists or really any other religion for that matter. But since the start of the Iraqi war we're finding ourselves more and more having to bend for the religion of Islam in this country. If you're confused about the teachings of Muhammad, whether it's coming from the radical extremists or the moderate Muslim's you may want to brush up on this a little bit. Ultimately it is not a religion of peace and tolerance, and you have but to learn more about how Muhammad taught his followers, and still does, to better understand. That is if liberalism and political correctness will allow you.

The Tyranny of the Majority? It's a phrase....not a fact. And I would love for you, or anyone for that matter point out to me where America has ever...EVER, been a tyrannical state! Or would you prefer to point to country's such as Iran, or perhaps Algeria, or maybe Iraq before we got there. Or would Nazi Germany be a better example? Hows about Mussolini's Italy? There are plenty other current examples of tyrannical states if you like.
To even imply that this country has ever displayed any type of tyranny goes way beyond laughable. And that's whether it be a religious tyranny, a class tyranny or otherwise.

Tyranny will come to this country if we continue to allow tolerance and political correctness to rule the land. I want fairness and balance throughout this land, but not at the cost derived from bowing down to a religion that calls us intolerant, unjust and non-inclusive and uses whatever means necessary to get what it wants. It may not be here now...but if we continue to witness what some would call minor issues now, balloon into something that gets more out of control; well what then?

To you and some others I know that this sounds quite extreme. But things are changing...and not for the better, and eventually this will fall back onto the next presidency should we find ourselves with an Obama or a Clinton in office. We need strength and leadership to help insure that this country will not fall prey to the inept ideas of tolerance that so overwhelmingly consume the likes of Pelosi, Reid, Hill and Bill, and uber-liberals like Barack Obama.

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At 11:33, March 12, 2008, Eclectablog said:

The Tyranny of the Majority? It's a phrase....not a fact.

It's a very real thing and is the result of purely democratic ways of deciding things. Read the link I provided. Intellectuals like John Stuart Mill, Alexis de Tocqueville, and Friedrich Nietzsche have written about it. It's the concept that if the majority all makes the decisions, the minority is completely powerless and effectively lives in a state of tyranny, under the absolute control of the majority. When you fear accomodating minority groups of any kind to the extent that you appear to, even when they are small, thoughtful, simple accomodations, I think it's an apt concept to discuss.

Frankly, at the end of the day, I think your fears are silly and don't reflect reality. Why? Because at the end of the day, white Christians, particularly white Christian men, will ALWAYS have the last word in the USA, at least in the foreseeable future. To believe otherwise is to ignore the reality of who controls the money and political power in this country. And because they hold the majority and, if things become too "uncomfortable", they will always revert back to the Tyranny of the Majority.

Your real fear should be if the rising percentage of Hispanics in the USA starts to make inroads on that majority. Then you can experience what the Tyranny of the Majority feels like from the front row.

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At 05:20, March 12, 2008, LauriesAsylum said:
	Well what I want to know is, why do the men need to wash their feet in the public restrooms? Add Comment \| Link \| \|

At 06:19, March 12, 2008, Rubicon said:

Laurie...it's part of their religious thing about cleanliness. Oddly enough, many Muslim's aren't real big on bathing but those feet need a good cleaning! Plus...it's an insult to shake hands using your left hand since in many third-world Muslim countries they wipe their butts with the left hand using water only.

"E"...I read the link even though I'm familiar with the concept, and I'm not adverse to a discussion on the theory of "The tyranny of the majority. But when you have but a handful of intellectuals that believe in this there's just not many places to go with it as a debate. Because if you read carefully their quotes they're pretty much convinced, plus, these are relatively old theories and concepts.

If you're using me say, as an example of a white Christian man, in todays America, as being one of the majority who'll prevail in any changes in what and how our society behaves you might be in for a surprise. A prime example of this would be the huge strides of blacks in America...especially over the last 20 years. Now I know there are those that would argue this point because I am white and a part of the "race" majority in this country...but the black communities across America today have a huge influence on what happens here today.

Most notably in politics. But also in the entertainment arena, in corporate America....and now look; the first black governor who on top of that is blind! Talk about huge strides. Another good example is Barack H. Obama, 20 or even 10 years ago this would've been unheard of...and look at the rather large influence he's having on young, white, Christian American's. You mentioned Hispanics currently in America...soon they will outnumber the percentage of blacks, especially if we do not do something to curb the influx of illegal Hispanic immigrants here. And if your heroes in Congress like Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid have their way they will be well on their way to being the majority....please tell me that this is not something you want!

You know me well enough to know that I am not an alarmist or an extremist. And the things that I'm speaking about, and the points that I'm trying to make are real and valid and need to be looked at as time goes by. Islam is a way of life that wants obedience...not tolerance. And little by little Islam in America is chipping away at us and we're a nation of complacency and misguided tolerance that is currently governed by a very misguided, misinformed and rather ignorant congress that at the end of the day only cares about their own self-preservation, power, and the wanton desire to keep that power at all costs.

"Keep in mind also that the danger of an Obama or Hillary presidency is their tolerance towards globalization, a very lukewarm respect for our founding ideals and principles,"

These are very true words and these words most assuredly apply to our current democratically held congress.

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At 04:57, March 13, 2008, Eclectablog said:

Your example of African Americans in the USA is a perfect one. It illustrates my point, that you apparently missed, that being accommodating to minority groups doesn't lead to them taking over the country in the way you seem so fearful of. The only accommodations of African Americans that I can think of that might possibly inconvenience me in my life would be affirmative action and that's clearly on its way out the door.

I didn't say that they don't influence my life, only that they don't inconvenience or negatively impact my life. I'm wide open to being influenced by new, good ideas. That enriches my life and that's Good.

Keep in mind also that the danger of an Obama or Hillary presidency is their tolerance towards globalization, a very lukewarm respect for our founding ideals and principles...

Complete and utter horseshit, that's what that quote is. Where do YOU get off saying they have a "lukewarm respect for our founding ideals and principles"??? Principles like personal freedom & liberty, for example? Gimme a damn break. If you want to talk about which side has betrayed the ideas of the Founding Fathers, let's talk about this administration and their promotion of religion in government, the stripping of civil and privacy rights, their promulgation of the idea of "president as king" and their free use of torture.

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At 02:21, March 13, 2008, Rubicon said:

"African Americans in the USA"

First of all "E", blacks in America aren't African...they're American's born and bred. My decent is Irish but you don't hear me going around calling myself Irish-American. You have however brought up a big difference here, and that is that Islam in this country are not American...they're Middle Easterners who have come to this country and expect changes to be made that favor them and them only, (obedience).
Blacks in this country...born and bred had every right to expect changes that not only favored them but us as a country as well. And by God in my opinion it took way too long...and sadly there is still too much prejudice around. And from where I sit right now most of it comes from the blacks themselves....fueled by the likes of people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.
But that's off task.

"that I can think of that might possibly inconvenience me in my life would be affirmative action and that's clearly on its way out the door."

Affirmative action my dear friend is one of the brainchild's of Bill Clinton, along with NAFTA which Hillary thinks should be kept...just be re-vamped a little bit. In the state that you live in, well, you're definitely feeling it.
Would it not inconvenience you if these things were to spread its way to the Middle East? From here?

I'll try to break this down into two parts:

"Complete and utter horseshit, that's what that quote is. Where do YOU get off saying they have a "lukewarm respect for our founding ideals and principles"??? Principles like personal freedom & liberty, for example?"

No horseshit here my brother. Liberals have proven time and again their distaste for the Constitution, our Founding Fathers and what we originally stood for. If liberals had their way we would rely on the government for every little thing! There goes your personal freedoms and liberty right out the door. Our Founding Fathers took no shit, and would blow your head off for taxing their morning drinks...and I'm not talking about orange juice either!

They wanted our school children to say the Pledge of Allegiance in school to pay homage to God that allowed us to be so great. They're turning in their graves right now because liberals through the ACLU have taken that away!
Principles? Where have your principles gone with globalization? We've done quite well thank you without that garbage and we still feed the world, and the world still comes to us with their problems. That's about as global as I care to get.

America is, right now, the most loved, feared, loathed, most admired and looked up to, and most visited country on this planet. Sure...we could make some changes, but not those of the liberals. And certainly not those that favor the Middle East, or Islam.

"Gimme a damn break. If you want to talk about which side has betrayed the ideas of the Founding Fathers, let's talk about this administration and their promotion of religion in government, the stripping of civil and privacy rights, their promulgation of the idea of "president as king" and their free use of torture."

Now there is your horseshit for ya! It's alway about Bush and his administration fucking your life up for you isn't it?
Your civil and privacy rights weren't stripped from YOU...unless of course you're a terrorists. Because if you think for a minute that your phones are tapped, and that you're being listened to via emails or other...then you may as well be a Jeff Goldblum on a week long meth binge!

What a load of shit "E"! You gimme a break!
Religion in government? When is the last time you took a good look at the inside and out of the Supreme Court building in Washington D.C.? All of the Biblical quotes and all of the carvings of Moses etc.
If there's any promulgation going on it's that maybe we should have a bit more religion in our government...it is after all what played a huge part in what got us here in the first part. Meaning....it's what our Founding Fathers had in mind, they did acknowledge that it was God that gave us these rights and freedoms. Read through the Constitution again...

"President as king" is something you made up. Bill and Hillary would love to be king and "Queen" of the world...Bush never had designs like that. To imply something like that is pure absurdity.
Torture? That has been something that has been going on for hundreds of years. Once again...your implication that this is something that Bush thought up on his own is just plain ridiculous! In some cases it works, for the most part is doesn't. But when it comes to time sensitivity, well, it's a proven fact that things like waterboarding, and similar tactics work. If you're a terrorist wouldn't even the idea of it make you want to talk?

Even the slightest of what we do pales in comparison to what other countries do when it comes to torture....yet I don't hear you complain about them. If you libs had your way, we'd never get anything done, and our country would be in grave danger again!

Free use of torture my ass!!

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At 03:08, March 13, 2008, Eclectablog said:

Affirmative action my dear friend is one of the brainchild's of Bill Clinton

Now THAT'S hillarious! Really funny. A complete fabrication and totally and completely wrong but really funny. I heard he made it rain on the Memorial Day parade in my town last year, too. And that gallon of milk that went sour two days early in my fridge? That was Bill Clinton's doing. You might want to brush up on your Affirmative Action history, Michael.

Would it not inconvenience you if these things were to spread its way to the Middle East? From here?

I have no idea what you mean by this. Free trade agreements with the Middle East, is that it?

They wanted our school children to say the Pledge of Allegiance in school to pay homage to God that allowed us to be so great.

Another history lesson: the Pledge wasn't used in public schools until 1892. The words "under God" weren't added until 1951. The Founding Fathers didn't say anything about this.

Principles? Where have your principles gone with globalization?

Huh? I'm probably more anti-globalization than you are. Besides, what's that got to do with our founding ideals and principles???

I'm gonna skip the "we need more religion in government" bit other than to say I couldn't disagree more and if you do any reading on the religious leanings of the Founding Fathers, you'll realize that you have completely mischaracterized their beliefs.

"President as king" is something you made up.

No. It's not. Bush, with his signing statements and executive privilege arguments, has used the office of the presidency to do things no other president has ever attempted and assumed powers no other president has ever asked for much less taken. What the Clintons have to do with this is beyond me...

it's a proven fact that things like waterboarding, and similar tactics work.

Not it's not. Most military commanders are against torture because it results in tainted, useless intelligence and because it worsens the treatment of our own troops when they are captured. I'm not making this up. They actually say and believe these things. It's the CIA that's doing the torturing, for the most part.

Even the slightest of what we do pales in comparison to what other countries do when it comes to torture

I see. So all we have to do is be better than some piece of shit, despotic dictatorship that tortures people and we're in the clear? What a lame argument THAT is.

Talk about betraying the ideals and principles this country was founded on. Sheezo...

You don't hear me complaining about them torturing people BECAUSE IT'S SO GODDAMN OBVIOUS IT'S WRONG AND THEY SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT!!! I don't complain about people that rob banks either. Same reason. I complain about US doing because (wait for it) WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE BETTER THAN THAT!!!

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At 03:20, March 13, 2008, LauriesAsylum said:
	Now, now boys, can't we all get along? lol Add Comment \| Link \| \|

At 03:45, March 13, 2008, Eclectablog said:
	Where's the fun in that? laughs (Actually, I have more fun here on Michael's blog than any other blog. Lively debate is good for all of us and Michael and I do a pretty good job of keeping it civil, my "horseshit" comment notwithstanding :) Add Comment \| Link \| \|

At 06:43, March 13, 2008, Opinionnation said:
	Equality is about being equal. 'Accommodating' muzzies who refuse to assimilate (like everyone else) is not equal; it's special treatment. If anything, they should be grateful for living here and should shut the hell up! Add Comment \| Link \| \|

At 07:46, March 13, 2008, Eclectablog said:
	Muzzies? Ah, an intellectual. I get it. rolls eyes So much for the principles of our Founding Fathers... Sigh... Add Comment \| Link \| \|

At 10:15, March 13, 2008, lisalisabobisa said:
	Well I just think all these different religions need to stop trying to change things. This country was based on Christianity, you live here, get over it.......... By the way your background looks absolutely amazing on my new computer!! Add Comment \| Link \| \|