Shout!

Friends

Chandramoon

Libertine

Cam

Tony

~~~~~

While all of our time has been taken up by the race for the White House candidates, Congress has let one very important issue fall by the wayside…and that is our border security and illegal immigration. And we can thank Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi and some of her far-left cronies for this and they’re looking to put the amnesty bill back on the table. This would mean amnesty for 12 to 20 million illegal aliens! We just cannot do this, it’s wrong, it’s incredibly dangerous, and not only does a huge disservice to us but also to the millions of people who came here legally…whether they became citizens or not.

Their first oder of business is to block legislation that would enforce and secure, and that bill is the:
Secure America Through Verification And Enforcement Act Of 2007
Now this bill would add some 8,000-border patrol agents and will allow employers to easily verify a workers immigration status. But Pelosi and company want to block it…as the Washington Times wrote:
"But House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and the rest of the House Democratic leadership are open-borders advocates and want no part of the SAVE act, and have thus far managed to keep the bill buried...."

I’ve made no secret to the fact that I loath and despise Nancy Pelosi and her pal and fellow uber-liberal Harry Reid (D-NV)…and company. And this action on their part just confirms what and who they really are! Of course all of the fuss between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton helps to distract people from paying attention to this very important issue…and here’s how the Washington Times describes one of the reason’s why Pelosi & Co are doing this:
"You've got Ms. Pelosi and the traditional Democrat groups basically wanting to see this population of 20 million illegals voting for Democrats. They want to give them residency, citizship, and register them to vote so they can use this illegal population as a political bloc that's beholden to them because they're the one who empowered them with the votes..."

Well this is certainly no surprise is it? Give people who are here illegally amnesty and they will be beholden to Pelosi and the Democratic Party…plain and simple. That is some 12 to 20 million extra votes, votes that as far as we’re concerned are illegal as well. The drain on our society from these illegal aliens is astronomical when you consider they’re abuse of the welfare system, the school systems, our emergency room services, and what’s worse is that most of these illegal people think that they deserve these services regardless of their immigration status; and that part of it just burns me up! Send them home, as many as we can, and if they want to come back legally after a waiting period, fine. In the meantime get these 8,000 border patrol agents hired, build the fences that keep the illegal from crossing our borders, and give employers the ability to verify the immigration status of employees. And if an employer hires an illegal alien then impose stiff fines and possible jail time depending on the magnitude of the offense.

You know, these politicians work for us, we the “people” are their employers but yet we let them get away with pretty much anything and everything. The more we allow this to happen…the more they’ll take knowing the we the “people” don’t pay attention. Also in the liberals business as usual tactics it’s a given that these members, and others are being strong armed by Pelosi & Co and fear reprisals from these rotten cores. The SocialistWorkers.org website speaks openly of Pelosi & company’s assurances:
"So far, the House leadership will block the SAVE act unless provisions are added to give the "undocumented" a chance at citizenship"

Conservative Republicans understand that the word “undocumented” is a code word that the amnesty crowd uses because it’s less offensive than calling those who have entered the United States illegally what they really are---illegal aliens! It’s the same old song and dance from the liberal’s…give us amnesty and we’ll beef up the borders, yeah right. This is like a slap in the face on us by a Democratic Congress that right now has a lower approval rating than George W. Bush…and Nancy Pelosi is at the top of the disapproval list. Once again the Washington Times writes:
"But unfortunately, the Democrats are putting together an elaborate con job: using tough-sounding rhetoric while working behind the scenes with open-borders advocates in the business community to win support from firms that have become very dependent on cheap foreign labor. The goal of these Democrats is....is to defeat a bipartisan bill that takes a no-amnesty, enforcement-oriented approach to illegal immigration. Specifically, they are very worried about the fact that a number of moderate and conservative Republicans and Democrats (and even a few liberals) are cosponsoring the Secure America Through Verification and Enforcement Act (SAVE) Actm H.R. 4088...."

Well…you get the idea, and because we allow this type of thing to happen to us courtesy of our Democratic run Congress we’re the ones who suffer. We’re the ones paying for these illegal aliens to live here illegally, they’re the ones not paying taxes, and again we pay for the emergency room health care and their illegal kids education. It’s time that this stops, it’s time that we the “people” stand up and tell this congress that we’re just not going to take anymore of their irresponsible behavior. That we want that wall built and that we’re not going to give people that are here illegally amnesty. We’re a nation of immigrants…but legal immigrants. And everyday people come to this nation legally while we’re allowing others to get here illegally. Another slap in the face, especially to those who are following the rules and do come here the right way. And lastly…all of the other immigrants learned to speak our language when coming here, rather than we learn their language.

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At 03:43, March 31, 2008, Eclectablog said:

Well…you get the idea, and because we allow this type of thing to happen to us courtesy of our Democratic run Congress...

Oh, stop it. This has been going on for years, much of it during a Republican-controlled White House, Senate and House of Representatives. To suggest that it's suddenly a problem thanks to the Democrats is just plain naive and/or disingenuous. That's NOT how this has happened.

I am personally quite ambivalent on this topic. On one hand, it's seems completely unfair for people to come to this country illegally, obtain all the privileges and to line-jump in front of honest people who are going through the proper process to be here legally.

On the other hand, this country makes fine use of these "illegal aliens" (I hate that term - like a person can be "illegal".) They pick our produce almost exclusively. They tend our lawns and yards. They raise our children. And we benefit because of the low level of pay they're willing to accept. Turning our back on these people (whose crime rate is, in fact lower than the average in this country) who are actually a BIG component of our economy seems absurd.

So I'm ambivalent. I have to hope there's a middle way that keeps the best and most fair aspects of both approaches.

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At 04:20, March 31, 2008, MS -- guest said:

I was out with a friend today whose daughter is a doctor at our large county hospital here in our city. She related that on average, every day at this hospital, 43 babies are born to mothers living here illegally. That means 43 more illegals everyday from just this one hospital, in this one city, in this one state. This seems a bit more urgent a problem for those of us who live in a border state as I do ... but with these birth rates and continued loose borders, the time is coming when it will be hard for anyone to remain ambivalent.

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At 04:48, March 31, 2008, libertine said:

I understand and share your concern, but I must agree with Eclec on one point -- you can't push it all off on the Democrats. This is a problem that has been many years in the making and both Democrats and Republicans share in the responsibility.

Secondly, this problem, like most problems, boils down to MONEY. And the target of ire is misdirected here. The illegal immigrants, after all, only want to make a better life for themselves and their families, and you can't fault them for that.

However, they are here in such great numbers because our government allows it, mainly because big business wants them here as a source of cheap labor. In my own town, they dominate most of the temp jobs in factories, jobs that native born Americans still want, as temp jobs are the only way to get hired permanently to better paying jobs in such plants and factories. Indeed, we have temp agencies here that advertise solely in Spanish, which clearly shows the intents of the employers. The difference is that the immigrants are worked as temps forever, and are never eventually hired on permanently, as in years past. The employers do this because it's CHEAPER for them -- they can pay them less indefinitely, they pay no vacation, health insurance, or sick days. Thus, the big businesses win by screwing over American citizens and illegal immigrants both.

I predict that as long as big business is making money this way, that little of any substance will be done about this problem, because in Washington, money talks!

Our porous borders trouble me not so much because of the illegal immigrants who come here to make better lives for themselves, but rather for a more serious problem. Along with the Spanish-speakers pouring across the border, it's just as easy for Islamic terrorists to come across our southern border with no trouble. This is the biggest reason why we need to secure our borders. And it's what I'm not seeing addressed much on either side of the aisle in Washington DC.

It would seem logical that if we want to fight terrorism, that securing our borders would be a key way to establish security in our own country. But, as we all know, our government is rarely logical.

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At 06:13, March 31, 2008, Rubicon said:

"To suggest that it's suddenly a problem thanks to the Democrats is just plain naive and/or disingenuous.

Yes I am suggesting it because one of the platforms that the Dems used to get their way into control of congress was the issue of immigration. And as with most every other promise made nothing has been done.
What's in the past where Democrats and Republicans share in the problem and non-solution, I understand. But they're the majority now and they're the ones making these promises...therefore I point toward the Dems in this and so does the Washington Post.

(I hate that term - like a person can be "illegal".)

Well that's what they are "E"...illegal and so everything they do is illegal, including picking our produce etc. The age old sayings stand with this issue: A rose by any other color is still a rose.[/B] They're illegal and to try and call them something else is just trying to be politically correct, or sensitive, or trying to hide the fact that what they're doing is wrong...hiding the truth.

And you speak of them with a lower crime rate is pretty much wrong, especially when we're hearing more and more horror stories caused by illegal aliens. Remember the 3 honor role students that were told to get on their knees and were then shot in the back of the head execution style...a major crime committed by an illegal.
Police departments throughout every state expresses frustration over the lack of laws governing what they can and can't do regarding the arrest or detainment of illegal aliens. The INS, or DEA, or Dept. of Immigration and the like practically do nothing, and they're the Feds and these police departments say that they're arresting more and more people that turn out to be here illegally.

Will....you're absolutely right to be concerned about terrorists crossing our borders to come in under the radar. This concerns me greatly as well and there is extreme frustration over the fact that our (Democrat held) congress is doing nothing.
Well...you can see what they're doing according to the Washington Post which is pretty much a liberal news source, and quite reputable as well. I call it obstruction....

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At 10:30, March 31, 2008, DeeJay said:

It's a tough one and I have no answers. I think it would be far easier to go after those that hire undocumented workers and nail them with fines. To be honest, I cannot blame people for wanting to come to America in search of opportunity. I don't know what ends I would go to in order to provide for my family if faced with the very grim life so many of these people face if they don't take a chance. I'm not saying we should simply open the doors; I'm simply saying I can understand their reasoning. Sadly, many of them end up being exploited by the people in this country.

Like Mr. E and Libertine, I have to say that I think it's unfair to blame any one particular party for this problem. It's been going on for a very long time and doesn't seem to be ending any time soon.

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At 11:47, March 31, 2008, texican said:
	Deejay stole my thunder. I was going to point out that businesses who hire illegals should be penalized. Also, the practice of hiring illegals needs to be stopped. No jobs for illegals, no reason to come over here. We also need to secure our borders...for this reason and for the reason Will mentioned. MS: Babies born to illegals here in the US are American citizens. Add Comment \| Link \| \|

At 12:44, April 1, 2008, MS -- guest said:
	For Texican – I misspoke and you are right, these babies are not illegals. They become citizens and instantly qualify for public welfare which means they gain access to free medical care, schools, housing, food stamps, and all the other benefits of our welfare state. They also become a pathway for their illegal mothers and other family members to remain here. Add Comment \| Link \| \|

At 05:54, April 1, 2008, Eclectablog said:

Yes I am suggesting it because one of the platforms that the Dems used to get their way into control of congress was the issue of immigration. And as with most every other promise made nothing has been done.

Ah. I see. If the Dems don't solve a decades-old problem in a little over one year, it's their fault. Got it. *rolls eyes*
Hell, even McCain has been on a different side of this issue than many other Republicans. It's an issue, as they say, upon which reasonable people can disagree. That's why I'm conflicted about it. It's not as straightforward or black-and-white as you paint it, in my opinion. I really don't think you realize the extent to which Americans rely on this very cheap source of labor.

And you speak of them with a lower crime rate is pretty much wrong,

No, actually, it's not. Read THIS, for example. I didn't say it was ZERO, I said it was lower.

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At 07:37, April 1, 2008, Rubicon said:

"For example, foreign-born Mexican men had an incarceration rate of 0.7 percent in 2000, more than eight times lower than the 5.9 percent rate of U.S.-born males of Mexican descent."

I did find that to be a very interesting part of this particular study. I can't see how it makes sense....but it's interesting nevertheless.

"The study concludes that the children and grandchildren of many immigrants become subject to economic and social forces, such as higher rates of family disintegration and drug and alcohol addiction, that increase the likelihood of criminal behavior."

And this would include illegal immigrants. Especially if we cut off their job opportunities and take away their welfare.
I fully understand wanting better for your family...that's very, very clear to me. However...we have sooooo many immigrants living here that wanted to escape religious persecution, poor working conditions, no jobs available, and desperately wanting better for their families and especially for their children and grandchildren, yet they came here legally and many went on to become US citizens.

So I think that that negates the notion that these illegals have no choice but to come here illegally. If others can do it then so can they. But speaking of others....in the case of illegal immigrants, those still in Mexico say...they see that other family members or friends cross the border successfully. They see that wages are better and they're able to get all of these benefits for free, (because we're so lax), and so they decide that well hey...if they can do it and get away with it illegally then why can't we. Next thing you know they're taking lessons from those that are already here, and boom....more illegal aliens.

"The study concludes that the children and grandchildren of many immigrants become subject to economic and social forces, such as higher rates of family disintegration and drug and alcohol addiction, that increase the likelihood of criminal behavior."

So what might we expect in a few years? A higher crime rate from illegals? If they do this study in say 5 years...I wonder how much it will change?

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At 04:58, April 1, 2008, Rubicon said:

Here's the results of one survey:

WASHINGTON, March 31 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- A new poll using neutral language finds that primary and caucus voters have little knowledge of candidates' immigration positions. The results also show that voters often do not share their candidate's position.

For results and tables, go to http://www.cis.org/articles/2008/vot...e_08.html.

Among the findings:

-- Only 34 percent of McCain voters, 42 percent of Clinton voters, and 52 percent of Obama voters correctly identified their candidate as favoring eventual citizenship for illegal immigrants who meet certain requirements.

-- Of McCain voters, 35 percent mistakenly thought he favored enforcement that would cause illegals to return home, another 10 percent thought he wanted mass deportations, and 21 percent didn't know his position.

-- Voters often held different positions from the candidate they supported. Only 31 percent of McCain voters had the same immigration position as he does. For Clinton voters, 45 percent shared her position; 61 percent of Obama voters shared his position.

-- This lack of knowledge, coupled with disagreements with their candidates' positions, makes it very difficult to draw any conclusions about the fact that all three remaining candidates favor legalization for illegal immigrants.

-- Whoever wins the presidency will face significant opposition to giving eventual citizenship to illegal immigrants. Just 25 percent of Republican and 50 percent of Democratic primary/caucus voters said they would support such an effort.

-- Pro-enforcement voters have a greater intensity of views than supporters of legalization. Among Republicans, almost nine out ten who favored causing illegals to return home said they strongly supported that view; on the other hand, fewer than half of Republicans who backed legalization strongly supported that view.

-- This greater intensity also exists among Democrats. Of Democrats who favored causing illegals to return home, more than seven out of ten strongly supported that view; on the other hand, fewer than six out of ten who favored legalization strongly supported that view.

Methodology: The survey of 1,276 persons who voted in a primary or caucus was conducted March 12-13. The survey was conducted by Pulse Opinion Research.

The Center for Immigration Studies is an independent research institute which examines the impact of immigration on the United States.

I found it interesting that more Dems than not favored sending illegals home...less than 6 out of 10. Whereas 9 of 19 favored the same.

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At 05:09, April 1, 2008, Eclectablog said:

I find it interesting that far more Obama supporters agree with their candidate's position than Clinton's or McCain's. I thought you said we are a bunch of lemming groupies who don't actually know anything about our candidate. Sounds like that's more true about McCain's supporters than Obama's, at least on this topic.

I think immigration is the third rail in politics. No matter what side you take, you're going to piss off a large group of people because it's a very polarizing issue. It's going to take someone with some seriously well-honed diplomatic and political skills to bring the American public AND both houses of Congress together on this issue. Otherwise, it's going to just languish as it has for many, many years.

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At 01:11, April 2, 2008, LauriesAsylum said:
	I agree with that last paragraph of Eclectablogs. Add Comment \| Link \| \|

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