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From: dantesinferno
To: Rubicon
Subject: Really?

Message:

Are you so insane you think I care about debating you or winning anything? Do you think I am hammering you and Aiel with comments because I want to accomplish some great goal?

No.

I, and often times Birdsnest, are simply venting our disgust of people like you, in an open forum.

Because the truth is, you are a horrible person. You really, really do deserve to have bad things fall on you and your loved ones. Because you lie, and then don't admit to it when getting caught. You say horrid things, then deny them. You make claims, then act in opposite to them. Your boy Aiel called me venal today. Ironically, it is a word aptly suited to you.
_______________________________________________________

OK.....Now, it's normally way out of character for me to publicly post someones Private Message to me. It's called "private" for a reason. But this has gone just a little too far, I mean, this is over the top, and it's my intention to expose this for what it truly is. This is a Private Message from Dante, (or Kristian), to me; what you see above is what I opened this morning. It's one thing to ridicule and belittle a person in a public forum on someones comment page, and since this has been ongoing for quite some time now, and I know to consider the source, it really doesn't bother me. And it's another thing to openly and publicly wish for such horrible malady's like cancer and then tumors to befall you. But the ballgame changes entirely when you, 1.) wish things like this upon someone in a private forum, and, 2.) up the wish and desire to include your loved ones.

I'm guessing that this would be to mean my children, my parents, my brothers and sisters, my aunts, uncles, and cousins, and those folks that I love and call my friends? I'm sure that my guess is correct. And ultimately all because you despise my beliefs, my ideas and ideals, my political stance, and in general how I live my life.
I suppose that when all is said and done I could, or perhaps should, get really angry about this.....but in fact I find it quite sad. Truly a "Sad State of Affairs." I have never minded the hostility toward me in the heat of the political debates, or in this case ridiculous arguments, but I do mind when my innocent loved ones are included in any of this.

If I get or die from cancer and or tumors it'll be because I smoke, or from some other form of unhealthy living. Not because a sick and demented individual like this wishes it upon me. Or perhaps young Master Dante practices VooDoo, or HooDoo, or knows the Black Ju-Ju! Honestly..... I find this kind of behavior not just irresponsible and immature, but quite sick and demented as well! To think that someone sits around seething from so much anger and hatred over what ultimately is so very trivial, that they deliberately set out to wish for, and desire for someones demise from truly horrible diseases, is to me unimaginable.... indeed, unconscionable.

I will also note that this is not the first PM I've received from Mister Dante. And while I have no intention of posting that one here, I will say that it was of a much more mature and responsible nature. More conciliatory, and one that I thought could, or would, bring about a better understanding of our political differences, and how we could find higher ground and find a way to "agree to disagree" without the senseless name-calling and belittling that had previously dominated most of our debates. I was pleased about the note and responded in kind. I would much prefer to remain civil and responsible with someone in a debate as opposed to the latter. I must confess....I have no idea what happened or what caused the man to renege on our agreement. Of course at this stage of things it certainly doesn't matter.

It was said that the term "venal" is aptly suited to me. Here's the dictionary's definition of venal:

1.
a. Open to bribery; mercenary: a venal police officer.
b. Capable of betraying honor, duty, or scruples for a price; corruptible.
2. Marked by corrupt dealings, especially bribery: a venal administration.
3. Obtainable for a price.

Well.....I've never been called venal, nor have I ever been accused of being any of those things; always a first I guess.
However I am being accused of being a liar, of saying horrid things, and of being hypocritical in that I say one thing yet act in an opposite way. With the exception of the "saying of horrid things", which in the past, and I freely admit to having done, have said on some occasions when temper and attitude got the best of me, some things that could definitely be considered horrid. But the liar business which Kristian has accused me of in the past.....still eludes me. And since I know that he knows absolutely nothing about me, and has no idea of who and what I am, I have to believe that this is nothing more than a perception of me brought on by the the complete and utter hatred of me.

I cannot stress enough that this post is NOT a vicious rant brought about by a desire to publicly attack the young lad for things said now, or in the past. This post is meant to expose the sickness, and viciousness of someone that I believe may need some serious help! It simply isn't normal to wish for, or have the desire for the kinds of things that have been publicly, and now privately, wished/desired for.....whether it be on me, or anyone for that matter. And again....I am bothered by the inclusion of my loved ones. And I did feel it prudent to post your private message, yet at the same time I want it understood that anyone else sending me a private message in the future need not fear that I might post theirs as well. And besides....I don't know anyone else that would send me such vile and hateful garbage such as this.

And finally....I don't know "Birdsnest" and I did not include him in this. Other than the times that I've seen and read his comments elsewhere, and his bantering back and forth with Dante from time to time, I know nothing about him. Nor what he stands for, or likes and dislikes, or anything else. And I also believe that he had, nor has anything to do with any of this. It's unfortunate that his name was mentioned at all.

This will be the last that I post anything about Kristian himself, or his viciousness and hatefulness. It is my desire that after this nothing more will need to be said by either party....especially since I would most assuredly not want to be banned from either here, or at the new EFX3 where I am beginning to post more and more.

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At 04:22, April 4, 2009, littleMissConfused said:
	No matter what the argument or who is involved...family members/freinds... 3rd parties should be left out if they are not involved. I wonder what ever happened to peace and happiness? Add Comment \| Link \| \|

At 05:57, April 4, 2009, dantesinferno said:

I will refrain from using any hostility in this comment.

My recent pouring of utter outrage on you has absolutely nothing to do with "all because you despise my beliefs, my ideas and ideals, my political stance, and in general how I live my life". We have disagreed on everything for years. Has never caused me to do more than see various shades of red.

No, what did cause my view on you to finally hit the utter rock bottom, was you behaviour following last November. The presidential election, to be precise. See, the thing is, that for all of three, maybe four years we have been at each others throats, your most sacred mantra has been a demand to respect the president. No matter the difference, no matter the political stance, respect the president. When Obama was elected, you threw this mantra out of the window, and when several inquisitive people asked you "Hey, what the fuck?", you simply did not acknowledge anyone with an answer. You went back on your word. Or words, seeing as how many variations there was of said mantra. You negated your stance, and then disrespected everyone in the room with not even dignifying it with a simple "This is how I do things".

That, by the way, is " b. Capable of betraying honor, duty, or scruples for a price; corruptible". There certainly was no price, no money exchanging hands, but you most certainly pissed away your honor.

As to me thinking of you as a horrible person... There was a conversation, about four years ago. It was about how San Francisco had banned the military from recruiting in schools. And as so many times happened, the thread was sidetracked, and among other things the subject of gay teachers suddenly walked in to the scene. And out came the immortal words (as closely as I can recall them) "I don't have anything against gays, I just don't want them in schools spreading their agenda". See, it's the part that follows the word "gays" that creeps me out. Somehow I feel that thoughts such as these come to play when you are voting on things like yes or no on gay marriage. Or possibly deciding if you want a senator who approves the idea of gay people adopting, versus a senator who thinks gays are destroying the American family.
So no, you don't walk around looking for gays to beat up. You still hurt people. You merely do it by proxy.

A note before closing; "I hope you get cancer" is similar to my other often used line "when the revolution begins, these pricks will be the first to be shot against a wall". It's a vent. It's a way of saying "I am actually so repulsed by this, that unless I actually say something that makes people look around, I fear a stroke may hit me". It is NOT, however, a blood curdling hex that should be taken as if the world is about to end. Oh, and the line with the revolution and the wall is actually a partial quote from Douglas Adams, which some people somehow never recognise, but simply assume that I am loading a rifle and preparing to execute people.

Oh, and there really is no seething. There is no mad rage. I am not bashing my keyboard when writing to you. Disgust is not anger. Disgust is what follows, when you spot someone you actually tried to befirend, turn around and say "You know all that stuff I said about respect, about supporting the office and so on? Never actually happened".

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At 08:59, April 5, 2009, LauriesAsylum said:

A note before closing; "I hope you get cancer" is similar to my other often used line "when the revolution begins, these pricks will be the first to be shot against a wall". It's a vent. It's a way of saying "I am actually so repulsed by this, that unless I actually say something that makes people look around, I fear a stroke may hit me".

You can't use that as an excuse for wishing harm to someone and their family. I have been extremely angry at times, at other people, but would never resort to that. There are other ways of venting that are much healthier and less threatening.

I don't always agree with Michael, but it is his blog and he has a right to say whatever he wants. If I don't agree with him, I'll just tell him. But for you to get so angry really puzzles me. You can say it's disgust, but it clearly comes across as anger.

Just saying...

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At 12:34, April 6, 2009, Rubicon said:
	Oh now Laurie-doo-doo. You know you always agree with me! hahaha! I think that the only times that folks around here disagree with me is when it comes to politics. Other than that....I can't think of anything. But you know I love ya anyway!!! Add Comment \| Link \| \|

At 12:53, April 6, 2009, LauriesAsylum said:
	I meant on the political side..:) Sometimes (not often) you say something I don't agree with, but that's ok, we all have our own views and that's where healthy political debates come from..:) I actually love coming to your blog to see all the different views on subjects! I love ya too Michael, You make me smile! Add Comment \| Link \| \|

At 01:09, April 6, 2009, Rubicon said:

Dante, I’ve spent the better part of this day trying to decide what, if anything, that I would say in response. This may turn out to become extremely poor judgment on my part, but I’m going to attempt to break this down as simply as I know how.

“My recent pouring of utter outrage on you has absolutely nothing to do with “all because you despise my beliefs, my ideas and ideals, my political stance, and in general how I live my life”. We have disagreed on everything for years. Has never caused me to do more than see various shades of red.”

Oh really? Only “various shades of red?” While you have the disagreeing for years part right, you’ve displayed much more than just turning red. I seem to recall a horrific tirade in my shoutbox from the old EFX days. You were extremely diligent in making certain that everyone passing through, knew just what kind of horrible person that you believed I was. You made it your mission to very publicly put me to shame, to try and humiliate me in front of everyone. Knowing that most of the folks passing through would have absolutely no idea of what was really going on. All they would know was that I was some sort of horrible liar, that I was ignorant beyond all belief, and that I should be reviled by, and shunned by society as a whole.
Ultimately? You did no favors for yourself, and you went well above and beyond just turning various shades of red. I left your tirade in my shoutbox for several days for folks to see, you didn’t win much support.

I’m not going to turn this into a finger-pointing fest. But it is one example of your version of turning red.

As far as the elections, the president, Obama’s getting elected, etc, etc. My mantra was about respecting the office of the presidency. Something that neither you, nor many of the other American bloggers here had, especially toward Bush. I respect the office of the presidency, but when this president continually acts like he’s a rock star, continually evades the tough questions, and is found to be much less than forthcoming about a number of questions regarding his past and current associations, and furthermore, his complete denial of his associations with Acorn….yes, respect for the man started to fly right out the window.

But any of this business is utterly beside the point.

“A note before closing; “I hope you get cancer” is similar to my other often used line “when the revolution begins, these pricks will be the first to be shot against a wall”. It’s a vent. It’s a way of saying “I am actually so repulsed by this, that unless I actually say something that makes people look around, I fear a stroke may hit me”

I failed to add this thought when I wrote this over at EFX3, but, you say, “I hope you get cancer” is similar to my other often used line “when the revolution begins, these pricks will be the first to be shot against a wall”. It’s a vent."
Your other often used line? Hmmm....that's funny, I didn't realize that wishing cancer on someone was one of your other lines. Or a line at all. Especially seeing as how I've been the brunt of many of your so-called "lines" over these past years. If indeed this is one of your usual lines, well it's a first for me. And makes me wonder if you've used your cancer "line" on others what and how they must have felt about it. Did you include their families and loved ones too??

Uhhh….no. Your PM, and your salvo at me on “E”’s blog when you first wished cancer on me is not simply venting. You missed the boat on this one…again. When you endeavor to wish for, and have the desire that someone’s loved ones contract horrible things such as cancer or tumors, you’re not venting. And on top of that to take the time to send along these desires in the form of a private message, to reiterate your thoughts, feelings, and desires privately to me, as opposed to doing so publicly, well…you’re serious, you’re not just venting.
And if making people look around is what you had hoped to achieve, then I suspect you may very well have done just that.

Venting is normal, wishing death on someone, and then on their innocent loved ones is not. There’s absolutely nothing normal about that! If somewhere deep down inside you, you’re trying to justify this kind of behavior, or pass it off as “just venting”, and it works for you…then it works for you. But I cannot imagine that working for too many other people.

In your last paragraph you indicate that you tried to befriend me. Were that to be true, you never would have reneged on things said previously in your last PM. You’re like the poster boy for that old saying, “with friends like that, who needs enemies!”

The bottom line here is this. You’re unable to carry yourself decently, responsibly, or with any kind of decorum when you’re faced with someone of opposing views or beliefs, or values. And this is not just with me. You’ve proven this time and again with others that are conservative and have differing viewpoints from you. Most recently you’ve gone on the attack with Aielman. With him you’re doing just as you’ve done with me in the past. You’ve resorted to name-calling, to cry’s of ignorance, and to the all out effort of making one feel completely and totally stupid!

Your signature has become to completely dominate the page with tirades that include everything I’ve mentioned above…and then some. It’s not a debate, and it’s not even an argument. It’s all about how smart you are and how dumb the rest of us are. Typically we’re all beneath you, and would be truly blessed if only we all could be more like you. But you see….that would be impossible because we’re all so incredibly stupid!

Perhaps it would behoove you to just not waste your time with ignorant little people like us. This way you wouldn’t have to concern yourself with all of the various shades of red, and you could revel in the fact that you’ve put yourself at a much lesser risk of having a stroke. Plus….and here’s the bonus, you wouldn’t have to expend so much energy on wishing great harm to come to others. I’m sure that quite the burden would be lifted…yes?

I don’t apologize for whatever your perceptions of me are. It seems that most of the time you go out of your way to paint your own picture of me, and of others who may think like me. You’ve painted me as a gay-bashing homophobe, a liar of gigantic proportion, of being venal, of being totally and utterly ignorant, incapable of understanding even the most basics of politics, and just incapable of any kind of understanding of anything in general!
You’ve even gone to the extreme of reciting definitions from the dictionary for my benefit. I can’t count on two hands or two feet the number of insults you’ve hurled my way over time. I’m baffled as to how you can even stand to keep coming back for more-I’m so horrible. Are you that brave? Or just a glutton for punishment?

So young man….please don’t add insult to injury by trying to make me, or anyone for that matter, believe that your statements were just simply venting, they were not. As a matter of fact, don’t insult me or my family or my loved ones again! It’s like I said to Deejay, if you don’t like what you’re reading, seeing, or hearing….change the damn channel!!

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At 01:51, April 6, 2009, Aielman said:

his post is meant to expose the sickness, and viciousness of someone that I believe may need some serious help!

It's real easy for people to wave their e-penis around and be an internet toughguy when they have an ocean between them and those they insult. Dante is just one of those people. He'd never dare to be as vitriolic and just plain mean spirited if he was in your presence. If he did, he'd be getting his ass kicked on a regular basis. Wishing harm on someone when there is almost no chance of reprisal is the mark of a real chickenshit...and someone who has no honor. As such, he no longer deserves to be recognized.

I hope they get his medication right and that he has a happy life...but beyond that, I have no use for him.

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At 04:33, April 6, 2009, dantesinferno said:

Plus….and here’s the bonus, you wouldn’t have to expend so much energy on wishing great harm to come to others. I’m sure that quite the burden would be lifted…yes? - When you think of me saying the things I say, do you see me lighting black candles and listening to emo music? I have never understood the concept most people seem to have, that hating, raging or venting takes a whole heap of energy, time and mental peace. Why? Does it take you all day to think of what to write when you comment something I say? I don't think so.

During the past weekend, I played several games of chess with Bebbet and Birdsnest, cooked Zucchini Focaccia, got engaged, had to sit through copious amounts of reality Tv and gave my dog a summer haircut.

Hating, anger and all that, according to you, takes time. I don't see it.

Sorry, I didn't miss any boat. Venting is all this is.Just that. And last night, I wished Birdsnest got polio, after he beat me at chess. Surprisingly, he didn't start to cry, nor did he felt so violated he had to write a blog post about it.

There is a line, it seems, that people always draw. About spouting insults. What one says is fine for him, but others may see it different. Over the years, you have said things that, I'll be quite frank, have hit a nerve and have even stung a bit. I have never, not once, thought that you actually spend time hating me, that you plan your next move and what to say next. Nor why should you. That would be insane. So why the hell do you think I sit around all day, brooding over you and sending bad vibes to your direction? That would be just insane. When I hit the 'Post Comment' button, I close this page, check the latest news headlines, and return to my life.

Now, since on the wonderful world of internet, it is just foolish to make any claims of oneself, be it about ones sexual or physical prowess. Or intellectual. But please, do feel free to ask you new penpal Pixie, with whom I have spent years and years chatting, about my state of mind. Despite having a somewhat debilitating psycho-biological condition (to which I have to take regular medication and have bloodtests to make sure the meds are actually on the correct level, which they are), I have some seriously busy game going on in my head. So yes, I do often consider most people to be idiots. It happens. I can't help it. When I have to talk with someone while rearranging my bookshelf in my mind or tryinf to remember the exact lines of St Crispin's Day monologue, arrogance can creep up on you.

As to the delightful bit of insight by Aiel... I have three older brothers. The concept of getting my ass kicked is not a new one. Neither is the concept of grabbing the hardest thing in reach and going for the soft bits. Would you like my home address so we can test your little theory? I know that both Ryan Air and EasyJet make extremly cheap flights to Finland today, by way of Britain.

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At 05:04, April 8, 2009, Rubicon said:

Your second to last paragraph makes absolutely no sense. And as far as someone taking the time to plan as carefully as they can what they're going to say...that description fits you. Whether it's true or not, personally I couldn't care less.

You're trying as hard as you can to spin this whole affair in your favor. You're trying every excuse you can to belie that fact that you say evil, hateful, downright mean things when you hate what someone else has to say! You simply cannot face the reality of what you've said recently....and things you've said in the past. Now it's your medications fault, not yours. Your meds make you wish for, and say things like you wish cancer and tumors on people, innocent people. You're simply unable to man up to it!

No one believes you man. Not one person buys into your spin, that it's your meds, or this....."So yes, I do often consider most people to be idiots. It happens. I can't help it. When I have to talk with someone while rearranging my bookshelf in my mind or tryinf to remember the exact lines of St Crispin's Day monologue, arrogance can creep up on you."

Whatever the fuck that is supposed to mean!!!

Dude....you can try and explain it, twist it, spin it or excuse it away all you want. But once again; the bottom line is what I said before: "You’re unable to carry yourself decently, responsibly, or with any kind of decorum when you’re faced with someone of opposing views or beliefs, or values. And this is not just with me."

And I'll agree with Aiel.....we can hope that somehow your medication situation gets resolved, but I have no use for you. And I'm certainly not going to change my feelings or opinions of you because of your so-called medical condition. Way too many people in this world try to use things like that as an excuse, or a way out of predicaments that they, and they alone have gotten themselves into.

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At 06:18, April 8, 2009, dantesinferno said:

Your meds make you wish for, and say things like you wish cancer and tumors on people, innocent people. You're simply unable to man up to it! - Own up to what? That I said I hope you get cancer. Ooooh, scary stuff. Yes, I did indeed said it. I use horrible, offensive words just for the fun of it. But wishing it? Again, you are actually implying that I care enough about your existence to think of you beyond the reach of this blog. How arrogant are you? You really think you are that important? Seriously?

And I'm certainly not going to change my feelings or opinions of you because of your so-called medical condition. Way too many people in this world try to use things like that as an excuse, or a way out of predicaments that they, and they alone have gotten themselves into. - Oh no, you misunderstood, again. What I meant was, that despite having a problem, I still manage to operate on level higher than most people. Certainly higher than you. It was not a point of excuse, little man, it was a point of arrogance and pride.

You are so desperate to make this thing seem as I'm spinning something, like I'm in a desperate slump and need to get out. The problem with that is, that I have no need to spin. You on the other hand? Well, your reason given in this thread for your disrespect towards Obama is down to his behaviour as if a "rock star" and his actons, which have caused your respect to "fly out of the window". Do you spot the dilemma I have with that? It's that you spent months during the elections bashing Obama. Then you did it post election. Then, five days after the inauguration, you made your first hateful post about him as president. Your reasoning for not showing respect requires other people to forget that you've been acting like a dick all along. That there was some respect, before it flew out. That there is what we in this reality call an untruth, or more precise, a lie. Lying to you is so second nature, that you don't even spot it when you do it. Were you hoping people have forgotten that you've been a mouthy prick long before Obama won the election? Were you counting on people to accept that you had respect for the president, you simply chose to display it with scorn? Not actually a smart move to defend yourself with bullshit that contradicts your own blog posts.

You and Aiel are so keen on pointing out that I am unable to stop, that I am a "glutton for punishment" and so on. Read what I am about to say carefully, because we all know you two have a habit of reading what people write, then rearrange the words in your head.
I have, at least on 7 or 8 occasions, had enough with arguing with you on some thread, have said so and said that I am hitting the unsubscirbe button. Then, a day later, maybe two, someone like WelshPixie or PeriodicallyDemented has dropped me a PM telling me that one of you came back with another vitriolic response. Let's sum that up, yes? You know I'm not there to read, but you can't stop shouting.
That's all fine and well, but now the pair of you have both declared with in a week not to answer my comments again, with Aiel even going as far as saying he would not even acknowledge me. And here we are, not a week later, with all sorts of comments and acknowledgments. What happened? You couldn't muster up the testicular fortitude between the pair of you to actually control yourselves and shut up? Two allegedly grown men, with so very balanced lives, and neither of you could do what I have done so many time, pull the plug and let you scream in to the void. It's hard not to feel immense superiority when encountering two grown men who lack the willpower to not humor someone they clearly dislike. Pathetic, isn't it. By the way, I am hitting the unsubscribe button again, and wait for someone to tell me that you've gone apeshit again.

Anyhoo... cancer and so on, now let the sad men's shouting match commence.

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At 09:26, April 9, 2009, indigomoonarts said:
	Holy cow!<ducks and runs> Add Comment \| Link \| \|

At 03:54, April 19, 2009, lisalisabobisa said:
	I don't even want to read all this crap. Block his ass...he's an immature, disrespectful, sorry excuse for a man. And guess what, even though these are my opinions, I'm not going to wish harm or sickness on him or any of his loved ones.....go figure....I guess it's just a character flaw on his part. Add Comment \| Link \| \|

At 04:37, April 19, 2009, lisalisabobisa said:
	Well I did read the post and a few of the comments and I was done......sorry but there are no excuses for your behaviour dante..... Add Comment \| Link \| \|